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Should Warmshowers include motorcyclists?

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Unregistered anon_user's picture
Should Warmshowers include motorcyclists?

I think it's worth thinking about. What do others think including Warmshowers?

Unregistered anon_user's picture
Someone sent me a reply for

Someone sent me a reply for which I say thanks. It was a private message and I don't know why.

WS Member WS Member's picture
No need to include motorcyclists

I've toured on motorcycle as well as on bicycle. These are very different. On a motorcycle, I can do 750 miles in a day if I want, and reach any camping or motel destination I choose for the night. I don't worry about my legs only being able to take me to twenty miles short of the next camping or lodging opportunity (but where a Warmshowers host is available). If motorcyclists want a similar organization for hosting like-minded riders, I think they should form one. It would be a great thing for motorcyclist hospitality and fellowship. Warmshowers is a great thing for the human-powered community.

Unregistered anon_user's picture
Yes they're different. Of

Yes they're different. Of course. But if you do 750 miles a day then perhaps you've missed the point of moto travel. Better to take a plane? I can welcome each category and wondered what others thought for Warmshowers.. Hosts could say ''no motos'' if they wished.

So thanks for your opinion which is what I asked for. Good roads!!

That's one for a no! Anyone else for yes or no? All views welcome!

WS Member WS Member's picture
Human powered cycling community

I'm firmly in the camp of human powered cycling. I'd be delighted to host canoeists too, but that wasn't the point of this community. I'm not interested in hosting motor-powered travellers via this community.

WS Member WS Member's picture
advrider/horizons

There is a very good existing network for adventure motorcyclists.

http://advrider.com/index.php

There is a tent space section, which hooks you up with fellow motorcyclists around the world.

There is also Horizons Unlimited which is a good way to meet other travelers.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/

I like the bicycle exclusive aspect of warmshowers.

I'm listed on both, but never got a request to host a motorcyclist. But have hosted numerous cycle tourists.

WS Member WS Member's picture
Plenty of other options for those not velocipedally inclined

This comes up for discussion fairly regularly in the forums in one form or another - ultimately you as a host can make whatever conditions you like - if someone touring by motorcycle asks you for a bed nobody is going to police you taking them in (however, conversely members who persistently ask for accommodation when travelling by means other than bicycle have historically had their profiles removed). Certainly, this is a community that was built by touring cyclists for touring cyclists (hosts are already effectively saying 'no motos' by default in their profiles) and there is still a firm belief among many here that it should remain that way.

Perhaps you would like to review some previous discussions to get some context:
-people using Warm showers not touring... | Warmshowers.org
https://www.warmshowers.org/content/people-using-warm-showers-not-touring.../
-non-touring host requests and appropriateness | Warmshowers.org
https://www.warmshowers.org/node/58143
-Is it in the spirit of Warm Showers? | Warmshowers.org
https://www.warmshowers.org/node/63181
-warm showers for base touring | Warmshowers.org
https://www.warmshowers.org/node/110762

Oh, and my votes: bicycles - yes; motorbikes: no, sports cars with a RRP > $180,000USD: yes

WS Member WS Member's picture
Bikes vs Motor Bikes

NO!! Motorbikes are powered vehicles and are in the same group as cars, trucks, buses, planes, motor boats and the like. Bicycles are "human-powered" vehicles as are canoes,, paragliders(?).......... Ne're the twain shall meet. Think how far a motorbike can travel in a day, on a bike that would take a week. No, no, never, never!! Not sure where I'd put e-bikes though - in a few years I may be riding one of those devilish machines.

WS Member WS Member's picture
Idle hams are the devil's

Idle hams are the devil's playthings.

Unregistered anon_user's picture
Interesting views! I don't

Interesting views! I don't like ADV as it is too brash and offroad and US centred. I like Horizons as it is international in character. Horizons welcomes motos, 4 wheels and bicycles - it is a travellers' place. I simply wondered if some of that ethos was suitable here. Please keep the views coming!

WS Member WS Member's picture
BTW - you haven't included

BTW - you haven't included the results of the secret ballot (or was it a spoilt vote?). Either way you might want to give a token response as all new messages received go towards your responsiveness % (this is only for the first message in any conversation).

Unregistered anon_user's picture
I don't understand . A token

I don't understand . A token response to what? What ballot?

WS Member WS Member's picture
-1

-1

WS Member WS Member's picture
Motorcyclists

I'm definitely against this. For a number of reasons cyclists are much safer to host than motorcyclists. Also, the whole ethos of cycle touring is in direct contrast to motocycling. This is a cycling community & i want to keep it that way.
Trace

WS Member WS Member's picture
New Member Review

When reviewing daily membership, I often delete people who explicitly say they are traveling on motorcycle or homeless people touring out of their van.

I am hoping that we can develop a more extensive profile sign-up page. Hopefully with more details and taking more time and effort to complete, we will weed out some of the people not appropriate for this community.

WS Member WS Member's picture
in one word

No

Unregistered anon_user's picture
Thanks to John Demirjian who

Thanks to John Demirjian who sent 4 identical messages at the same time. What happened John?

Unregistered anon_user's picture
I asked a question here and

I asked a question here and thank anyone who offered a courteous reply. I want to ask WS if someone sending me 4 identical messages at the same time is intended to make problems? Paul Harper referred to this rather mysteriously. And what is the secret ballot?

WS can you help?

Of course people must realise that asking questions is normal especially when new. If asking a question isn't OK then please let me know?

WS Member WS Member's picture
Oh dear, it seems I have

Oh dear, it seems I have unleashed widespread confusion. Sorry.

One thing at a time - you were at one point keeping a running tally as if this was some kind of referendum and you also mentioned that somebody had privately messaged you, that was what I was referring to when I mentioned including the results of the secret ballot. I guess its a moot point at this stage.

Now, to the token response. Every member has a responsiveness rating visible on their profile page which is calculated by dividing the number of messaged replied to by the number of messages received. If you wish to receive guests this may be something you would want to maintain at a high percentage in order to look like a responsive host. As WS at the moment does not distinguish between official requests and common private messages, I was just advising you that you may want to send a token response ('OK, thanks' ot whatever) so that the message doesn't count against you in terms of your responsiveness.

Anyway you have roused the locals into a pitchfork brandishing mob - quite an impressive debut. What is next on the agenda? Selling Warmshowers off to a venture capital consortium? A merger with Islamic State? Changing the name to 'All Touring Cyclists Smell Like Arse'? Whatever it may be, I think it's safe to say that we will be looking forward to your future contributions on the forums.

Unregistered anon_user's picture
Rude

What an astonishing reply to a simple question. You could simply have said not a good idea, or a good idea. That would have been enough.

WS Member WS Member's picture
Once again, sorry.

Once again, sorry.

My point was you may have broached a slightly touchy topic.

PS - I did say no, as did at least half a dozen other people.

WS Member jerrymtb@hotmail.com's picture
motorcycles >?

no
NO
NNOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

WS Member WS Member's picture
Should Warmshowers include motorcyclists?

My opinion is no.
Motorcyclists are good people. They're not pedaling themselves, however.

my $0.02 worth,
Gerhardt in Portland, OR

WS Member WS Member's picture
Motorcycles

No

WS Member WS Member's picture
Horses yes, motorbikes, no

I'll gladly host bicyclists, but not motorcyclists. I've always dreamed of hosting people on a cross country trip on horseback. I'll gladly host them. I got a barn, pasture, etc. None yet... I've nothing against motorcycles. I go riding with my brothers from time to time, but bicycle tourists need more support, help, etc.

WS Member WS Member's picture
Depends on the guest..

If he/she is a nice, rounded person I'm not concerned if they come by broom, bicycle or boat. I think it's more about the spirit of hosting; on the other hand if the site is too open it could turn on a second couch-surfing, and who needs that?!? So I wouldn't advertise it for any other niche than cyclist, but upon receiving a request outside of the 'usual', would take it case by case not some set-in-stone rules.

WS Member WS Member's picture
Depends on the guest..

Nice reply, Laura & Mario. Keep the site cyclists only but consider any witches, bikers and boat captains on their merit. Though I'd prefer they arrive by Vespa or 50cc moto than a 1200cc BMW or Honda. You're right, the WWW doesn't need another CS website. Richard

WS Member WS Member's picture
I agree with you - we don't

I agree with you - we don't want to see another CS. WS being aimed at touring cyclists has provided a useful barrier against the kind of growth and degradation of community that we have seen on other hospex sites. The common thread of bicycle touring has cultivated a healthy tribalism - members are more willing to go the extra mile to help out others as they've more often than not been there themselves. The fact that the thread that binds the community happens to be cycle touring is almost secondary to me (I'm not someone who thinks cyclists are somehow morally superior beings, I've met plenty of tourers who are boludos and I have nothing against motorbikers, backpackers, grey nomads in caravans or witches on brooms) what is important is that this thread exists, and continues to exist for the continued functioning of the community.

Yes, it's about the person and the spirit of hosting but keep in mind that your every instance of hosting someone travelling by motorbike, car or backpacking is an advertisement which can travel by word of mouth or internet forums to reach many others. Also taking into consideration that (as mentioned previously) WS has traditionally removed the profiles of those who persistently ask for hosting when travelling by non human powered means, you are essentially just delaying the inevitable. For this reason if I receive a request from someone who is not touring by bicycle I let them know about WS policy and ask them to contact me (and other hosts in the future) through other hospex sites (Couchsurfing, BeWelcome, Trustroots, etc) where I will be happy to receive them.

WS Member WS Member's picture
I'm a biker ...both kinds

I'm a biker of both kinds and I would not support motorcyclists being part of this site. Each mode of travel has its' own "culture" and adding motorized vehicles to the mix would change the nature of this community. I am an avid motorcyclist and have a nice 25,500km motorcycle trip under my belt ...BC, Canada to Yaviza, Panama and back, but I would not want to see this community lose its' unique focus. I made use of mostly Horizons Unlimited during my travels and was quite happy with it. Keep warm showers for self-propelled travellers.

WS Member WS Member's picture
A motorcyclists may have no

A motorcyclists may have no interest in cycling at all and this is a site for cyclists. Where would be the common ground? I am both a cyclist and a motorcyclist. If I wanted a place to stay as a motorcyclist, I would be looking at Horizonsunlimited or Couchsurfers.

WS Member WS Member's picture
Definitely not

Denis,

My answer is a definitive No, and if i'm honest I am surprised that it should warrant discussion.

The website http://motostays.com fulfils this purpose, and it would appear that other websites do too.

Even by casually 'tolerating' 'accepting' 'accommodating' backpackers or motorcyclists it changes the type of people who register and the kind of people we will meet and the experiences that we will have. And will turn this network into a disorganised mish mash like couchsurfer... which also exists already, for anyone.

The website already has many 'active' members who are clearly not active as they do not reply to messages, and have not been online in months or years. This is a network and community that requires us to
1) turn our status offline or update our profile if we are temporarily unavailable.
2) not leave dormant, outdated and permanently unavailable accounts as it can frustrating to sift through 100 people where 40% are officially unavailable and 55% are unofficially unavailable.
-On this subject.
Is there a feature to put an account on hold, i.,e. to keep it active and not deleted, but so that it doesn;t show up until it is reactivated.
Can Warm Showers contact anyone who has not been active online in over 6 months, asking that they retire or update/and use their account?
This would help massively.

I think many people have covered other reasons why accepting motorcyclists is a bad idea, which I could regurgitate.

Even as a member cyclist, I would not hike, motorbike or take a train somewhere and still contact a warm showers host, I would be on a different budget, having a different travel experience and would select accommodation accordingly.
I would also not use motostays as an option while cycling.

Nic

WS Member WS Member's picture
Motorcyclists.

I ride both and do both types of rally and touring. They have totally different cultures and I would not like to expose Warmshowers hosts to the outlaw end of the motorcycling spectrum, who are not a problem amongst their own.

WS Member WS Member's picture
Depends on the person and the

Depends on the person and the profile.
If someone has hosted lots of people here on warmshowers and askes me to host them, even on a motorcycle I would probably not hessitate at all. give and take and I think people who give up time to host should get some leeway, someone freshly registrered with a bad profile would get a default no, in between those two it would be my gutfeeling and how we interact between the request and my decission .

WS Member WS Member's picture
Best to set them straight from the get go.

Or you could send them links to other hospex sites and explain that WS is a community that provides hospitality specifically to touring cyclists.

As mentioned previously members not travelling by human powered means have historically been banned from the site. Taking them in through WS will serve only as an advertisement encouraging others to disregard the identity of our community before their profiles are inevitably removed.

WS Member WS Member's picture
Look Paul, I respect your

Look Paul, I respect your views as much as the next persons, but I dont have any knowledge about other hospex sites (briefly hosted on couchsurfing).
I see your other posts in this thread and your fairly aggressive stance on this and thats fine, I'm not going to try to reason back and forth, but I will continue using warmshowers like I stated, active hosts that requests staying even if they are not biking at the moment will get more leeway then non active people.
I'd rather host someone who hosted but are not biking now, than someone who never hosted and just used the services as a guest.

Without people hosting this community would be a sad place, hopefully the minority of people posting on this board is not the broad view of the people that use warmshowers (generally a small procentage voice opinions on boards compared to users anyway).

And to Gerry, I'm a little sad by the way certain people are answering you, for me hosting on warmshowers is more todo with the mentality of people that tour on bikes than the actual use of a bike, I love bicycling and I like the kind of people who do it, if you fit in that you are in my mind a warmshower member, being forced to one of the other over this issue seems like a bad thing for this community and if it for some reason gets enforced (however they would do that) I would most likely put myself unavilable for hosting.

TL;DR People have different views on how to handle it, I dont agree with them all, I'll do what I feel is right, if how I use it breaks the "rules" and the "rules" get enforced I'm out, People need to chill and not be so passive agressive as Paul put it (stone and glasshouse, but whatever).

Unregistered anon_user's picture
A spanner in the works...

My circumstances are such that although once an avid cycle-tourer, I can no longer ride a bike, any touring I do nowadays has to be by car/van unless I could find someone to peddle for me on a specially designed bike! So according to some members, my profile should be deleted & requests to be hosted should automatically be refused! I agree that WS is primarily for cycle-tourers & should remain so, but would perhaps advocate some lee way, especially if members are predominantly cyclists but have valid reasons for using a motorbike (i.e. short holiday & do not wish to use planes/trains to reach destinations too far to reach in the time...) & what will happen to existing members now able-bodied, who may at a later stage no longer be able to ride bikes, will their profile be deleted or will they be refused to be hosted if maybe after years of hosting, they likewise turn up in a motorised vehicle? What about the advent of electric bikes, will people who use them be refused to be hosted because they haven't used their legs to reach their destination?

WS Member WS Member's picture
"So according to some members

"So according to some members, my profile should be deleted."

I haven't seen any members suggest that your profile be deleted because you cannot cycle. WS has, in fact, thousands of members who are not cyclists themselves, but who joined because they want to host visitors passing through their communities on bikes. However, it is expected that if you aren't cycling, then you should limit your use of the network to hosting. Only if a person asks for places to stay when he is traveling by means of another form of transportation, do people believe that the person’s profile should be deleted.

Unregistered anon_user's picture
Discrimination?

Paul Harper says: "As mentioned previously members not travelling by human powered means have historically been banned from the site."

I can't travel by human powered means, so according to Paul I should be banned, banning = profile deleted in my books. As for "expecting" members who cannot cycle to "limit" themselves to hosting, that is quite frankly outrageous & quite discriminatory; what you're basically saying is only fit & healthy people should be members of WS to enjoy ALL the advantages it has to offer, so I guess that rules me out!

Because of my situation, I joined WS PRIMARILY to host, but if I (& others in a similar situation who have a history of cycle touring & like to host cycle tourers) should ask to be hosted, are you seriously telling me that WS will delete my profile because I'm in an electric wheelchair & can ONLY use non-human powered means of transport to get around! Under the circumstances, it'll be interesting to see what other members think about this & maybe put it to the test...

WS Member WS Member's picture
I was referring to guests

I was referring to guests obviously, and it is not according to me it has been the site policy (take a look at the top left corner of the screen, what does it say?).

I have only ever hosted on this site, guests stay with me usually a minimum of three nights, I cook for them, take them out around the city help them do any errands they need assistance with, whatever they need. Because of a chronic illness it is unlikely I will ever be able to tour again so you'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to summon much sympathy for those that sign up to a hospex site that describes itself as 'A community for touring cyclists and hosts' and then turn around and say because of my past touring experience or because I have hosted x number of guests I have earned enough brownie points to allow me to disregard the rules and the identity of the community. I host because I enjoy it, there is no payment pending when I farewell a guest at my doorstep, if you look at it as some sort of sacrifice that puts the WS community in debt to you I would suggest that WS (and hospex in general) might not be the best fit for you, perhaps AirBnB or some similar 'sharing economy' app might be more your thing.

I just came back from a week in Uruguay - the resources I used to find accommodation? TrustRoots, BeWelcome, CouchSurfing, AirBnB and TripAdvisor - not once did I consider using WS, why would I? I was not touring by bicycle. There are plenty of other resources available to you both hospex and commercial I would encourage you to use them as I do to anyone who makes a request to me on WS and is not touring by bicycle. There is nothing outrageous about it, it is the identity of the site.

Unregistered anon_user's picture
A question of choice

Like many people, you don't seem to understand I don't cycle by CHOICE, which I can assure you I would love to be able to do, you also seem not to be aware that finding hosts with WHEELCHAIR ACCESS is EXTREMELY difficult, especially in cities, something that was confirmed to me earlier this year. It's not a question of brownie points or debt but one of RECIPROCITY, which as far as I know is the principle on which hospex sites operate, including WS, which I joined because of my keen interest in cycle touring, I also believe some members might benefit from my experience, not just by being my guests but also by hosting me, & the fact I CANNOT turn up on a bike should not prevent people from doing so, it's all about FLEXIBILITY as far as I'm concerned & I see no harm in asking to be hosted on this site, if WS decides to delete my profile because I'm not on a bike then so be it.

I would also remind you this thread is about whether motorbike tourers should be allowed to be members, & the consensus does appear to be a resounding NO! My point is there may be valid reasons for someone not touring on a bike, but is otherwise a staunch supporter of cycle-touring & likes to meet/host cycle-tourers; are WS members so inflexible they cannot make allowances &/or have the freedom to decide for themselves on a case by case basis, in which case you're probably right, I don't belong here...

WS Member WS Member's picture
No, I understand entirely, I

No, I understand entirely, I just described how I am in a similar situation to yourself. Reciprocity on a hospex site for touring cyclists and hosts would involve the exchange of hospitality between touring cyclists and hosts, writing in caps doesn't make it any different - all of your arguments could be equally made by the OP on his motorbike or by some other recent arrival with a Winnebago. As for accessibility, there are hospex sites that allow hosts to advertise their homes as being wheelchair friendly - WS doesn't have this feature because, again, it is a community for touring cyclists and hosts.

If you wish other members to benefit from your experience why don't you share you knowledge here on the forums? As far as I can recall you've spent most of your time here having a disagreement running over numerous posts with a veteran hospex member over him giving sound advice to a new member on how to increase his chances of finding a host and appearing on a thread about hosting motorbikers to insist that WS bend the rules for you just because you say so.

I have no doubt I could write requests to WS hosts telling them of my 9+ years in the saddle touring all over the world, or my experience working as a bike mechanic or of the debilitating illness that changed my life and receive offers of accommodation. So what's the difference? Why do you insist on doing it and I do not? Why do you join a community with 80,000 members that has been about providing hospitality for touring cyclists for over 20 years and demand that it all change for you whilst in my 7+ years as a member I have never made such a request?

Well, if I were to consider such a course of action, the next question I'd ask myself is 'hang on, this is a site for hosting touring cyclists, you are not touring by bike, you are asking for special privileges. Do you believe these special privileges should only apply to you?' And my answer would be 'no, of course not, it would be extraordinarily presumptuous of me to expect these privileges to extend only to me, they would have to extend to everybody'. Then I would ask myself 'If those privileges then extend to everybody would this community then not effectively become open to anyone travelling by any means?' And my answer would be yes, it would. My desire for WS to retain its identity and my insistence on being hosted when not touring would make me a hypocrite, hence I do not do it (if you want to know why I don't want this community to become open to anyone travelling by any means that has been articulated ad nauseam in this thread and others).

As I have already alluded, you will no doubt find members willing to host you, I doubt that you'll even be removed for doing so (though if we were to expect the rules to apply consistently to all members, it seems to me you should be). I will continue to direct non touring requests to my profiles on other hospex sites and use those sites myself whenever I myself make requests for hospitality as I wish to see WS continue to retain its identity as a site for hosting touring cyclists.

WS Member WS Member's picture
my account was deleted

>I haven't seen any members suggest that your profile be deleted because you cannot cycle.
after account been deleted that's no possibility to suggest about it.
I am a motorcycle rider and my account was deleted next day I was signed up. I did not send any message to anyone, i just did not do anything! But my account was deleted cause I am motorcycle rider. I send msg to HelpDesk team and they reactivated my account.
To be honest, I am shocked of how much hate to motorcycle riders is here!
If all the case about pain in legs and butt.... You should try enduro riding and then try to compare pain only in legs and butt(I rode 100 km per day on chinese bicycle I know what it is) and pain all over body.
Ok. you do not want to host motorcycle riders, but have a minimum respect for them. I am sure, those ones who ride not highways but local roads or dirty roads think about cyclist as brothers and have much respect to them. I am very disapointed to read this thread and a couple others threads. I am curious about cyclist (there are not many touring cyclist in Ukraine) and I wanted to host cyclist. And I still want to host.
But guys, you gotta to think about this situation, you have problems to find a host during your trips, but tha same time you want to see here only cyclist. How much people have been deleted or leave this site because zero respect to them?

Every motorcycle, bicycle or car/caravan traveler are welcome in my house. For me, all people who deside to ride\drive long road trip have a similar goal - to explore new countries, new roads, to meet new people. Not to get from point A to point B, but to feel that road from point A to point B.

WS Member WS Member's picture
Policy Explained

Vito,

As Registrar for Warmshowers.org, I have helped to set policy over the past few years. This is a "community of bicycle tourists and those who support them." We normally do not delete any completed profile that shows available hosting. We do delete profiles from people who do not complete hosting fields in their profile, and say that they are traveling by van, train, car (with bicycle on the roof rack), carnival, motorcycle, and other non human powered means of transportation. Those groups are not a part of this community. We delete these profiles as a way of keeping the community focus on bicycle tourists.

There are other communities out there specifically for motorcyclists: motostays.com and motorcycle-travel.net

It is wonderful if you would like to host in Warmshowers.org, regardless of your background or if you culture. Please know that many WS members will not host a person who does not arrive on a bicycle, tandem, unicycle, or other form of human powered motion. If you wish to be a part of a broader, all encompassing community, a platforms like Couchsurfing.com are there for that experience.

Ken Francis

WS Member WS Member's picture
Intriguing Thread

This is a good discussion and simply proves that things aren't always black and white. I think the gist of the thread has been whether motorcyclists (or other non-cyclists) should be included here as a matter of policy. My answer to that would be "no", since it would dramatically change the nature of this site. On the other hand there are situations where someone used to be into cycle touring, is already a member of Warm Showers, and for whatever reason simply cannot tour by bicycle anymore. Should those people now be "banned" from the site? My answer to that is "absolutely not". I also doubt that anyone else is suggesting this either. If we had a request from a former cyclist with dozens of glowing reviews and who's been a member for many years I would definitely consider hosting her if my home allows for the disability. The common ground is still there as opposed to having a backpacker/bus traveller (couchsurfer) or 4x4 adventurer or car driving tourists with no interest in cycling showing up at our door.

Someone joins with no past, present or future interest in cycle touring: Delete them if they joined for the purposes of being hosted during their travels, as opposed to just being hosts.

A cycle touring member is no longer able to cycle: Leave them alone.

...Michelle

Unregistered anon_user's picture
Common ground

Thank-you for agreeing with my point of view & saying it very clearly, nice to know there is at least one flexible WS member as I came very close to leaving. However, I do think more people should voice their opinion & hopefully establish beyond any doubt that someone keen on cycle touring & ready to host but unable to cycle will not be banned from this site for requesting to be hosted.

WS Member WS Member's picture
You are not the first to

You are not the first to request that you should be able to be hosted because of reason {X,Y,Z], nor will you be the last. It has been discussed a number of times with some in favor of hosting non-cyclists for reason X and Y but not reason Z, others in favor of hosting only for reason Y and others against hosting whether for reason X,Y or Z etc.

1. How do we form an official policy from these disparate ideas and opinions (and for the inevitable reasons [A,B,C...] that will follow) ?

2. How do you propose we evaluate the validity of any of this as an organisation or is it just good enough for a member to sign up and give reason [A-Z]?

3. Would a much simpler litmus test for a community for touring cyclists and hosts not be: is the potential guest going to arrive at my house with a bicycle and gear for touring?

WS Member WS Member's picture
Gerry, for example, has been

Gerry, for example, has been out of cycle-touring for 16 years, to judge by his profile. That’s a long time. Someone like that may be able to vaguely recount some cycling trips done in younger days, but such a guest will hardly be any different than a Couchsurfing or BeWelcome guest, and that’s not the activity and lifestyle that I am here to support. (The person is always welcome to send me a request through BW that I might consider, though). Allowing people to travel around in motor vehicles just because they claim to have once toured on a bike, dilutes the focus of WarmShowers, and also opens the network to abuse.

Unregistered anon_user's picture
Confined to the scrap heap

So what Christopher is basically saying: only ABLE-BODIED people should be members of WS, knowledge & experience that could be VERY useful to people new to cycle-touring counts for nothing & people like myself basically viewed as USELESS! It's not the first time we've crossed swords, & as far as I'm concerned, he has once again showed himself to be an extremely narrow-minded individual & his opinion of me is now even more abundantly clear to me...

WS Member WS Member's picture
"So what Christopher is

"So what Christopher is basically saying: only ABLE-BODIED people should be members of WS"

Very rude of you to put words in my mouth when I already drew your attention to the fact that WS welcomes all kinds of members (as hosts), regardless of their interest in or ability to do cycle-touring themselves. No one would consider you “USELESS” if you actively participated in the network (as a host), in fact I imagine most people here would be quite grateful.

But no, I don’t think you should be able to drive around in your car and get free lodging through this network for people with bikes and panniers just because you once, many years ago, did some cycling. Why are you so resistant to the idea of using a general hospex network for your motor-vehicle traveling needs?

Unregistered anon_user's picture
Missed the point

If you'd care to read my previous posts again CAREFULLY, I point out this a matter of RECIPROCITY & that I have NO CHOICE about not using a bicycle to tour! If I'm good enough to host people from this site, then I see no VALID reason not to be hosted, which incidentally is unlikely to be very often as it's VERY complicated for me, but there is a PRINCIPLE at stake here: this site frowns on people who don't host & basically only want to be guests, why should someone be "limited" to hosting ONLYjust because they can no longer cycle for reasons beyond their CONTROL. What you're basically saying (& it's not rude to point out the obvious...) is one rule for fit/able-bodied people & another for those unfortunate enough unable to cycle, which in my books is blatant discrimination; if WS condones this then it is definitely NOT a site I'd wish to support, so this needs to be clarified one way or t'other asap; members need to decide if (1) unfit to cycle = unfit to be member or (2) unfit to cycle but willing to host cycle tourers = OK to be hosted even if not travelling by bike, you can't have it both ways as far as I'm concerned! If members (& not just you & Paul) decide that (1) should apply then I will delete my profile & put my energy in supporting sites with more flexible members...

WS Member WS Member's picture
Entitled much?

We've already been through almost all of this, you are not arguing in good faith.

Here is the number one valid reason for people not to be hosted when not touring by bicycle:
Warmshowers, a community for touring cyclists and hosts.

There is not one rule for the fit/able bodied people and another for those unable to cycle, there is one rule (well, several actually) for everyone:
-What are the rules of the Warmshowers community?
https://www.warmshowers.org/faq#t27n4029
...
The WSL is for hospitality for private individuals (or couples or very small groups) touring on bicycles. Please don't use it for other types of hospitality - for your large group of teenagers doing a cross-country ride, or for your large-group fund-raising event (even though it's for AIDS or cancer or some other fine cause). Please don't use it for non-bicycle travel.

At least, its not all bad news because, as you said, you joined WS primarily to host which you are still free to do.

And sorry, you don't get to come here and issue ultimatums on what members have to decide or not, and again with the 'unfit to cycle=unfit to be a member' false dichotomy? This is not the choice that confronts you and not one person here has argued that.

Here are some of the exceptions you have argued for under which non-touring members should be able to be hosted through WS:
1) If members are predominantly cyclists but have a 'valid' reason for using a motorbike.
2) If existing members were once able bodied but now unable to ride a bike.
3) If members have hosted (there should be reciprocity regardless of whether that member is travelling by bicycle).
4) If members have experience in cycle touring and knowledge that can be of benefit to hosts
5) If members are staunch supporters of cycle touring and like to meet cycle-tourers

These are just the exceptions you have come up with - how many more will be added to the list when we consult the other 89,193 members (I'm assuming you are not proposing that you have a monopoly on deciding when the rules of the community can be disrespected and when they can't)?

And then once all of the exceptions have been collated and itemised:

1. How do we form a coherent official policy from these disparate, overlapping and contradictory ideas and opinions (and for the additional reasons [A,B,C...], clauses [D,E,F..] and sub-clauses [G,H,I...] that will inevitably follow) ?

2. How do you propose we evaluate the validity of any of this as an organisation or is it just good enough for a member to sign up and give reason [A-Z]?

3. Would a much simpler litmus test for a community for touring cyclists and hosts not be: is the potential guest going to arrive at my house with a bicycle and gear for touring?

...and Christopher's question is also still pending:
Why are you so resistant to the idea of using a general hospex network for your motor-vehicle traveling needs?

I can't say I have much patience for the passive aggressive histrionics of the perpetually victimised and on these charges you have proven yourself to be something of a recidivist (not to mention consistently misrepresenting others' points). Having to wade through this morass each time before I can even begin a reply is just tiresome. You have sufficiently convinced me on this thread and the other where you bristled at Christopher for offering tried and true advice to a newcomer that you are not interested in an honest discussion and I see little point in addressing your petulant cry bully tactics any further.

For your future reference:
-These are all hospex sites where you can both host and be hosted (and at least the first two have a searchable database of hosts with homes that have been marked as wheelchair accessible):
couchsurfing.org
bewelcome.org
trustroots.org
-And if you ever actually want to delete your account rather than just talking about it all the time:
https://www.warmshowers.org/faq#t21n3794

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