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and why would an e-bike (pedelec) be cheating?

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and why would an e-bike (pedelec) be cheating?

Hi!

I read a few negative comments on e-bikes (pedal-assist) here and wondered, why.

I did bike-trips with a normal MTB until it got stolen.

Always, I said 'it is ME who is going up that mountain, not a motor. I want to accomplish this trip, not an engine'

Then my brother-in-law joined us on a vacation. He already owned an eMTB and went along on our day-trips. He was sweating and puffing all the same, but when we returned, we were done for the day. He, to the contrary, took off to visit yet another mountain, because it looked intriguing to him.

And that's what I learned - and still admire: you can choose the level of sweating depending on your health and daily condition. You can see more, go farther and still have some blood in your brains once you reach the summit.

After our bikes got stolen, I decided to go for an eMTB. I use it for the daily commute to the train and for cycling-vacations. My fitness has even improved, despite the 'cheating', resting heart-rate down from 57 to 52 in average. Because I now do spent significantly more time on my bike.

So, why would you guys out there NOT host somebody on a pedal-assist? I do camping, I am out in the rain just as well and - unfortunately - undesired at hotels as any fellow-cyclist. I just can go a bit farther every day than before. I don't see the point of despising a pedal-assist.

your thoughts?

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"I do camping, I am out in

"I do camping, I am out in the rain just as well."

So do lots of motorcyclists, and they definitely don’t belong here.

Much of the reluctance to accept e-bike users as fellow tourers, is due to the expectation that technology will only improve with time, further lowering the effort required to tour by e-bike.

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Enough effort required to tour

..."negative comments on e-bikes (pedal-assist)"  and  " reluctance to accept e-bike users as fellow tourers"....

Interesting remarks. I wonder if next guests are accepted by every WS-host as "fellow tourers":

--a cyclist with a leg prothesis using pedal-assist

--healthy seniors of over 75 years with e-bikes 

--an e-bike tandem with one healthy and one handicapped person

--a cyclist touring with a "whike" (www.whike.com) (Only accepted when he has headwind(=in that case not using his sail)??

-- a 10-year old child using a small e-bike to keep up with the parents

--a cyclist couple, one person riding a handdriven wheelchair with pedal-assist.

Or...do these people not meet the WS-standards of "enough effort required to tour by bike"?

To be clear: these examples are not invented. They do exist everywhere in my country :The Netherlands. 

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it’s the individual hosts’ choice to welcome e-bikes

A few years back I was cruising at a good clip on the Danube trail near Regensburg on a credit card tour, just a saddle pack on a road bike. All of a sudden a group of blue-haired grannies overtook me. I had too much pride to draft them. A couple of kms up the road, I spotted them drinking a late breakfast / early lunch wine and munching on the areas famous white sausage.  It’s never too early for a beer in Germany, so I parked my ride and discovered that they were riding e-bikes. Now that my ego was assuaged, the beer tasted even better. Good for them I thought, as they still had to peddle somewhat and they are experiencing the joy of cycling. Without the e-bike they may be confined to planting or even “pushing” tulips.

I have an ambient attitude towards e-bikes. I definitely want them banned from hiking and related trails as their use can encourage way too many “Sunday” riders that harm the environment and get other trail users up in arms about all bikes.

Christopher (drum bun!) has a good point, as the tech gets better, the e-bikes can morph into an electric moped. This defeats the purpose of Warmshowers as it’s a refuge for pedaling as opposed to sitting cyclists.

Peter brought up excellent points concerning the reasons why a cyclist may use an e-bike. I certainly wouldn’t turn any of these people away, not sure if I’d tell the person sailing on a whike to take a hike.  As for Peter, he could parachute down to our homestead and have a place to crash, opps, stay. What a profile!

Like always, it’s the individual hosts’ option to offer shelter or not. For Andrea I notice that she actively hosts cyclists and has a good review. Plus she is a member of Warmshowers for over 3 years.  I may be tempted to teach her parrot some Polish cuss words, but it looks like a great place to stay and near the Frankfurt airport.  I wouldn’t have a problem hosting her at all. Now if the person is a total newbie and looks like they treat the site like couch surfing, I would be a bit reluctant to let them recharge their e-bikes while enjoying our hospitality.

So, Andrea, you are always welcome to our place just north of Breslau.

Robert Mink

Jary Poland via Spokane USA

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e bike

Makes sence to me I'm 63 justed finished four month 6100 miles.  Thinking a few years down the road I can still do this with "a little help"

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lowering effort required to tour (2)

Next to the inferior bike hype, there are  much more doubtful tricks to "lowering the effort required to tour".

How about the majority of WS-members  "trying to cheat" by using powerful low speeds to make it easier climbing steep slopes?
Why don't they take just the pre-Worldwar ll - one -speed citybike?
 And...not to forget the "sneeky attitude" of most long-distance riders to choose carefully, calculating, the "prevailing-wind-direction", to get the maximum profit of tailwinds?
(For instance the popular west-east direction of the US northern tier and nòt the headwind risks of an east-west route.)
Why do we actually buy lightweight aluminium, carbon frames and aerodynamic wheels? 

Where are the real tough ones among us,  with steel muscles, top ascetic, selftorment personalities nowadays?
Boy, boy, boy..what are we getting soft, sissy like, weaklings, opportunistic, huh?....(LOL)...

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It’s ironic that someone

It’s ironic that someone whose profile includes some pretty strict rules for whom he considers acceptable guests, and who has told people in the past "My house, my rules", is now complaining about other hosts setting rules for whom they want to host. If we don’t want to host ebike riders, we’re not going to host ebike riders, and by your own rules it’s inappropriate for you to try to convince us otherwise.

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Complaining? Inappropriate to convince?

Complaining? Inappropriate to convince?

I love your reaction, Chris. 
"Ironic" is your only word that fits exactly in the purpose of my contributions here above.

I love people who take my somewhat challenging  - give it a name  -  texts, as shown above, so seriously.
On top of the used verbal pitfalls, you probably skipped my abbreviation..."LOL"....

Apparently missing my intentions, making fun of this delicate subject,  your reaction brings us back to one of the major values of Warm Showers: freedom of choice.
For your convenience  and reassurance I will solemnly declare, as explained in my earlier forum contributions, that any host has the full freedom of :
 --accepting or rejecting  guests (with or without e-support, multiple low speeds, tailwind, cabon frame, hard pumped tires, ultra-lubricated chain, aerodynamic helmet, lightweight tent and more tricks to "lowering effort required to tour.")
--making his/her own house rules in accepting guests

Guests make their 100% own choices in choosing the right host. What do we need more?? Freedom!

Next to freedom our cycling world has another precious value: humour.
However, humour is a phenomenon that only is detected if you cycle (and read forums thoroughly) with open eyes.
Ending up again with:....LOL..!

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x

x

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I think everyone is in agreement "My house, my rules"

Hi Christopher,

I didn't get the impression that Peter was berating anyone for not hosting guests on e-bikes. Actually I am grateful for his comments as he actually changed my mind about allowing people on e-bikes to visit us here in Poland. He brought up some good points.  I can't imagine the majority of warmshower hosts turning down a one legged cyclist using an ebike.

The  definition of a forum "is a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." Peter was simply exchanging his views, which is highly appropriate on a forum, the only reason a forum exists. Ïndeed, I read forums to have my ideas challenged. He may have used his droll Dutch sense of humor to exchange his views, but I don't think Peter was complaining about warmshower hosts that prefer not to host e-bikes.

All the best 

Robert

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easy, mate

Well, not sure, why this is boiling up the way it does.

It seems there is some misconception - there are already moped-like ebikes around, S-Pedelecs that go up to 45 km/h. Not my topic.

It's just that, seriously, I would probably even forget to mention that I'm on an e-bike. My husband is mostly not using the engine at all while I can now finally keep up with him :)

Well, I'll find out next year when we tour the Loire, starting in Le Puy and see if and where we will be able to stay when no camping can be found.

WS Member WS Member's picture
easy, mate

Well, not sure, why this is boiling up the way it does.

It seems there is some misconception - there are already moped-like ebikes around, S-Pedelecs that go up to 45 km/h. Not my topic.

It's just that, seriously, I would probably even forget to mention that I'm on an e-bike. My husband is mostly not using the engine at all while I can now finally keep up with him :)

Well, I'll find out next year when we tour the Loire, starting in Le Puy and see if and where we will be able to stay when no camping can be found.

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some misconception?

"Some misconception..."?
What misconception?
The definition of a bicycle/ e-bike?

If this is the case, the Oxford Dictionary says about a bicycle:
"A vehicle consisting of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled*) by pedals and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel".
I would prefer to add the word: "human" ( propelled*) 
The interesting question is: are all the other different models of vehicles, "human propelled by pedals and steered with handlebars to the frontwheel" NO bicycles? 

I wonder what WS-members think of this.
Are next vehicles bicycles or no-bicycles?
A three-wheel bicycle? www.livestrong.com/article/255494-the-best-three-wheel-bikes-for-adults/
A recumbent trike?
A recumbent quadracycle?
A velomobile? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velomobile
A unicycle?
A cargo bike?

If a bicycle is only "human propelled", a whike (bicycle with sail) is not a bicycle, because he gets extra power from an extern power source: wind.
However, a whike with the sail down turns into"a real, human powered bicycle" all of a sudden.
Is a common bicycle tourer with strong tailwind (instead of a sail using his body to catch the wind) using "an extern power"?  
And...is an e-bike-NOT-using-the-e-support a common bicycle, or is it still an e-bike?